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Who?
Sen. Kirsten Gillibrand (D-NY) — Intelligence and Armed Services Committees
LISTEN: Laslo & Gillibrand
Ask a Pol asks:
How was your meeting with AARO’s — All-domain Anomaly Resolution Office — interim director Timothy Phillips?
Key Gillibrand:
“I let him know that I'd like to have a public hearing this summer,” Sen. Kirsten Gillibrand exclusively tells Ask a Pol. “And so he's gonna put together some data and information to disclose in a public hearing to show what work they've done, especially examples of things that were unknown that they've been able to figure out and examples of things that were unknown that they still haven't figured out so that the public can see the difference between what technology brings to this analysis to inform lawmakers on what we need to do.”
AARO’s declassified report seemed like case closed?
“Oh, it's definitely not case closed. I think that their report was just that their analysis of everything they were shown and everyone they talked to, cause they had no basis to say there's a secret program,” Gillibrand told us. “But of note, the two whistleblowers that I've met with did not meet with AARO and refused to meet with AARO. And so maybe the next director they'll meet with, but I can't assess them unless AARO can talk to them, cause I don’t — I mean, AARO knows what they know and what they've seen and what they've been shown.”
Caught our ear: Schumer’s UAP amendment to NDAA
“I thought Chuck got done what he wanted to get done, but maybe I'm mistaken. I thought he accomplished what he wanted,” Gillibrand says. “The work I wanna keep doing is to have much more thorough data collection, because we are still seeing so many unidentified aerial phenomena and we don't know what they are. And that's very frustrating.”
It's terrifying.
“It's terrifying from a national security perspective and just for these pilots to have to fly and do their jobs to not be safe and to not know what they're running up against,” Gillibrand tells Ask a Pol. “And I'm just very worried about technology that we're not aware of, particularly if it's from an adversary that's doing it for malign interests, whether it's Russia, China, Iran or others. Very important.”
ICYMI — Ask a Pol’s exclusive w/ UAP Caucus co-chairs Luna & Burchett after AARO briefing
Below find a rough transcript of Ask a Pol’s exclusive interview with Sen. Kirsten Gillibrand (D-NY), slightly edited for clarity.
TRANSCRIPT: Sen. Kirsten Gillibrand
Matt Laslo: “I haven’t seen you since you met with Timothy Phillips at AARO — their interim director.”
Kirsten Gillibrand: “Yes, I did.”
ML: “How did that go?”
KG: “Very well. I think he's incredibly competent. He was working with Dr. [Sean] Kirkpatrick all along. I let him know that I'd like to have a public hearing this summer. And so he's gonna put together some data and information to disclose in a public hearing to show what work they've done, especially examples of things that were unknown that they've been able to figure out and examples of things that were unknown that they still haven't figured out…”
ML: “Interesting.”
KG: “…so that the public can see the difference between what technology brings to this analysis to inform lawmakers on what we need to do. I also am working on more legislation to require more sensors, so that we have more data collection of the area between FAA-space requirement — FAA and space, that number of miles of airspace isn't really looked at well enough. I also have deep concerns about some of the presence of drones around our military bases. It is deeply concerning that they are spyware by adversaries, and so we want to have more information on that as well. So I'm looking for a lot more information and work on these topics, because I think it is really concerning for domain awareness, for national security and for our pilot safety.”
ML: “That's interesting, cause their declassified report kinda made it feel like case closed. But so you want…”
KG: “Oh, it's definitely not case closed. I think that their report was just that their analysis of everything they were shown and everyone they talked to, cause they had no basis to say there's a secret program. But of note, the two whistleblowers that I've met with did not meet with AARO and refused to meet with AARO. And so maybe the next director they'll meet with, but I can't assess them unless AARO can talk to them, cause I don’t — I mean, AARO knows what they know and what they've seen and what they've been shown.”
ML: “Have you met with David Grusch yet?”
KG: “No. We invited him to come, and I was supposed to meet with him and Dr. Kirkpatrick together, but they ultimately declined that meeting.”
ML: “Interesting. I'll keep my ears out for the hearing this summer.”
KG: “Yeah, so we're gonna try to do something this summer to just, again, keep the public aware of where we are, what we know, what we don't know and how we're going to gather data from here going forward so we have more robust information.”
ML: “Interesting. Have you heard anything about people at the Pentagon, like [National Security Advisor] Jake Sullivan or [Defense Secretary] Lloyd Austin working to kinda gut the Schumer — your amendment last year in the NDAA with [Senate Majority Leader Chuck] Schumer?”
KG: “I did not hear about that. I think it was very important that the way the amendment was worded, that it didn't disclose SAPs [Special Access Programs] related to US-based programs. I think it was much more about, let's frame this the right way so that we're not disclosing programs that we don't think should ever be made public, that have nothing to do with the issue of concern, unidentified aerial phenomena.”
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ML: “Because they've never really had these conversations or had to release it publicly?”
KG: “Right. I think it was maybe just worded too broadly. So, I think, if there was any effort, it was to just make sure it disclosed UAP-specific things.”
ML: “Any work on that amendment for this NDAA?”
KG: “The required disclosure?”
ML: “Yeah, or expanding it or...”
KG: “I don't know. I thought we passed the provisions of that amendment.”
ML: “Yeah, but some people — like folks on the House Congressional UAP Caucus — they want it.”
KG: “They wanna have a different version of it?”
ML: “I think so…”
KG: “I'll take a look at whatever — I thought we passed what we were hoping to pass.”
ML: “….about them saying Schumer — or your amendment with Schumer got really watered down.”
KG: “Mine's different. I thought Chuck got done what he wanted to get done, but maybe I'm mistaken. I thought he accomplished what he wanted. The work I wanna keep doing is to have much more thorough data collection, because we are still seeing so many unidentified aerial phenomena and we don't know what they are. And that's very frustrating.”
ML: “It's terrifying.”
KG: “It's terrifying from a national security perspective and just for these pilots to have to fly and do their jobs to not be safe and to not know what they're running up against. And I'm just very worried about technology that we're not aware of, particularly if it's from an adversary that's doing it for malign interests, whether it's Russia, China, Iran or others. Very important.”
ML: “Know you gotta run.”
KG: “Thank you.”
ML: “Good to see you, ma’am.”
Matt Laslo’s a veteran congressional correspondent, new media prof. & founder of Ask a Pol — a new, people-powered press corps.
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