Who?
Sen. Thom Tillis (R-NC) — Member, Senate Judiciary Committee
LISTEN: Laslo & Tillis
Ask a Pol asks:
What do you make of the debate they're having here in the House on the FISA bill? Especially when it comes to tracking.
Key Tillis:
“I think there’s a lot of misinformation out there about tens of thousands of US citizens being illegally surveilled. Anybody who knows Section 702, 704 — knows that’s a bunch of bunk. The FBI, they clearly had bad practices in place. They have fixed them. They’ve implemented them as part of standard operating procedure — this bill would codify it,” Sen. Tillis exclusively tells Ask a Pol.
Caught our ear:
“The only thing I saw in there that I thought was a little weird is this obligation to notify congressional leaders if a member of Congress is being surveilled,” Sen. Tillis exclusively tells Ask a Pol. “Look, if they’ve gone through a FISA [Court] process, I don’t know why we should be treated any differently than anybody else — it’s a private process. I worry about that being subject to political abuse.”
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On disagreement with Trump:
“I believe that President Trump’s taken the position of disagree — he started the week with an excellent position, in my opinion. I just respectfully disagree with him. But it may very well be that he's thinking about how he's actually been subject, arguably, of abuse. And I can understand that,” Tillis tells us.
Below find a rough transcript of Ask a Pol’s exclusive interview with Sen. Thom Tillis (R-NC), slightly edited for clarity.
TRANSCRIPT: Sen. Thom Tillis
Matt Laslo: “What are you slumming over here for?”
Laslo’s go to quip when he sees a lawmaker on the ‘wrong’ side of the Capitol.
Thom Tillis: “What’s that?”
ML: “I saw you out there, yeah. What do you make of…?”
Japan’s Prime Minister Kishida had just finished delivering a fairly rare joint address of Congress in the House chamber, which Laslo watched from the press balcony overlooking the House floor.
TT: “Yeah. It was a great speech. I loved how he has crystalized how as Ukraine goes, the Asia-Pacific goes. I thought it was a very strong message.”
ML: “Interesting. Yeah. When it comes to the US policy — FISA [Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act] — what do you make of the debate they're having here in the House? Especially when it comes to tracking.”
TT: “I think there’s a lot of misinformation out there about tens of thousands of US citizens being illegally surveilled. Anybody that knows Section 702, 704 — knows that’s a bunch of bunk.”
ML: “Yeah?”
TT: “The FBI, they clearly had bad practices in place. They have fixed them. They’ve implemented them as part of standard operating procedure — this bill would codify it.”
ML: “Interesting.”
TT: “The only thing I saw in there that I thought was a little weird is this obligation to notify congressional leaders if a member of Congress is being surveilled. Look, if they’ve gone through a FISA [Court] process, I don’t know why we should be treated any differently than anybody else. It’s a private process. I worry about that being subject to political abuse.”
ML: “Interesting. I’m gonna have to go look for that section.”
TT: “So I’m gonna go — the first I heard of it yesterday, but now I know it to be true. It's only if — they were saying that they were exempt. So this is another example of misinformation. They were saying it wasn’t exempt but my understanding it’s just the obligation to report to leadership. But I think that that — I don't know who would put that in there and think it was a good idea.”
ML: “So do you think Trump has a misunderstanding? I mean, it seems like even the Republicans when they killed it…”
TT: “I think President Trump has — I believe that President Trump’s taken the position of disagreeing. He started the week with an excellent position, in my opinion. I just respectfully disagree with him. But it may very well be that he's thinking about how he's actually been subject, arguably, of abuse. And I can understand that.”
ML: “Interesting. Are you, cause especially when it comes — it’s interesting that you don’t have concerns now of the FBI tracking Americans’ data.”
TT: “A year ago — well, because I know what the process is. A year ago next Wednesday, I went — I'm just trying to figure out where my staff is so let me get this real quick.”
Tillis pulls out phone to message his staff.
ML: “You’ve got a day job.”
TT: “I’m outside. Oh shit.”
ML: “You're across from Longworth [House Office Building].”
TT: “I know. I’m trying to figure out — did they come in?”
ML: “You're too quick.”
TT: “Hey, I’m — oh, wrong person. Let me call Jackie. I’m where I asked them to be. I think they’re inside the chamber, so I’m gonna go try and get them out of there.”
Laslo laughs.
TT: “Sometimes, if you guys would just listen to the old guy.”
ML: “Sounds like me and my interns. Last week I told them all, my interns, it’s like, ‘Everyone get a notepad and just write down what I say and do it.’”
TT: “Yeah”
ML: “Even if I'm wrong.’”
Laslo laughs.
TT: “Hey, I'm out, I'm behind. Did you go through security? Come all back out. I told Angela to tell y'all to meet me out here but I've — just come out the way you came on the House side and you can pick me up on the corner if you turn right. Okay, see you, bye.”
ML: “You were saying they assuaged your fears.”
TT: “No but see I — I went there, there were a lot of dumb things. It was a bad implementation. It used to be you could do, like, a macro-level query, and it would dip into Section 702, data. That changed over a year ago.”
ML: “Interesting. With technology?”
TT: “It actually changed by implementing the, in the search engine that they use. So now you have to — you had to opt-out not to get that. Now you have to opt-in and you not only have to opt-in, but there are controls that say at certain levels you have to get supervisory approval. And so this is a conscious decision to go into it. And it's — if you are a US citizen working with the nation-state as a foreign agent, the Section 704 process still requires a warrant. This crap of people of saying a warrantless surveillance isn’t happening.”
ML: “Interesting.”
TT: “I mean there might be an accident but it is not happening — happening with the way we’re codifying it.”
ML: “That's interesting that they put those hurdles in to actively…”
TT: “All that has been standard operating procedure for over a year.”
ML: “Interesting. But it seems like your colleagues on both sides don't really know that?”
TT: “They need to do their homework.”
ML: “Preciate you.”
Matt Laslo’s a veteran congressional correspondent, new media prof. & founder of Ask a Pol — a new, people-powered press corps.
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Sen. Tillis on FISA: "a lot of misinformation out there about tens of thousands of US citizens being illegally surveilled"